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Turf destructive bikers off Ilkley Moor, say walkers
11:17am Thursday 23rd November 2006
Comments (56)MOUNTAIN bike riders who are causing serious damage to the landscape and putting walkers at risk should be forced off Ilkley Moor.
That's the view of some walkers, who say cyclists are a scary menace' whose activities are scarring the moor.
Ken Cooke, of Wheatley Road, was contacted about the problem by several neighbours and has seen the sport's effect on the landscape for himself.
Mr Cooke, who recently campaigned for the National Trust to take on Ilkley Moor, has now written to Bradford Council demanding action.
He said: "I've seen the damage that's being done myself. There are bands of a dozen or 15 cyclists going up at a time. You wouldn't think a mountain bike would cause a lot of trouble but when there's a lot of them going up regularly and they start making obstacles and courses for themselves, moving stones around and cutting up the paths, it does a heck of a lot of damage.
"Ilkley Moor is an urban common so everybody, including horse riders, has access to it but technically bicycles are vehicles. That means they shouldn't be on there, but they've been tolerated so far.
"I'm asking if it's time to do something about that. Personally, I don't think mountain biking should be allowed because it's causing erosion and difficulties for walkers."
Fellow Wheatley Lane householder Jan Richards has raised the matter with Ilkley Parish Council. She said: "Over the past few years I have seen a large amount of destruction caused by cyclists but recently there has been a major increase.
"I have seen over the past few weeks places where cyclists have moved stones to make the ride easier for them, but with no regard to the consequences.
"Because large stones have been moved the pathways and surrounding moorland have been churned up and large lumps of the moors are falling away.
"If something isn't done about this soon, with the onset of winter and the rainfall increasing, the moorland is going to suffer even more.
"We are lucky to have all this on our doorstep - let's see if we can preserve it for future generations and not turn it into a combat course for off road cyclists."
Ilkley district and parish councillor Anne Hawkesworth, Bradford's Executive Member for Environment and Culture, said: "There is only one legal route for cyclists across the moor, which is the Keighley Road which runs to Whetstone Gate. It is illegal to use cycles elsewhere because the moor is classified as urban common, and we urge cyclists to comply with that law.
"We have not received many complaints but we are monitoring the situation and will take action if necessary. We are also speaking with mountain bikers in the area and asking them not to use the moor.
"We have recently published our draft Rights of Way Improvement Plan and the Ilkley Moor Management Plan and one thing we could consider is making some provision for cyclists to use the moor.
"We urge everyone to look at those plans at www.bradford.gov.uk or at their library or planning office, and let us have their comments."
Your Say YourIlkley Gazette
john G, says...
7:36pm Thu 23 Nov 06
RM, says...
1:06am Fri 24 Nov 06
Youths of today should be encouraged to excercise and not 'veg out' on the sofa with their x boxes and PS2s. Exciting physical excercise like mountain biking is what will get these kids interested in the outdoors and enhance the general health of the nation.
We're already the most obese nation in Europe, banning the sports kids like to do is not going to help.
AR, says...
10:14am Fri 24 Nov 06
If there are issues with unsociable mountain bikers then it's time to open dialogue and perhaps set some ground rules that everyone finds acceptable. I can guarantee you that mountain bikers will continue to use the Moor irrespective of this discussion, so why not take the opportunity to create some constructive dialogue that helps us all.
One last note, you both mention the illegality of riding a bicycle on the Moor - could you confirm that you never break the speed limit, avoid parking on yellow lines, always 'pay & display' and if you own a dog, remember pick up its' droppings ;-)
John G, says...
1:39pm Fri 24 Nov 06
You mention ground rules - they are already there - they are being flouted by you and people like you.
Baldy, says...
2:21pm Fri 24 Nov 06
At the end of the day walkers and bikers both do what they do to keep fit and anjoy their leisure time in a manner in which is a pleasure to themselves, and that is what matters. As for digging up the moor and cutting down trees then no this should not be done unless through consultaiton and agreement with the owners and ALL users of the moor.
Dr Jonathan Miles, says...
4:05pm Fri 24 Nov 06
Mr Cooke, presumably, does take this view because he is suggesting that all mountain bikers should be prevented from riding on the Moor because of damage done by a few vandals. His argument that mountain bikes cause all the erosion on the Moor is entirely spurious as there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that bikes cause more damage to trails than walkers. If Mr Cooke were to consult the scientific literature available on this subject he would find that comparative studies have shown that Mountain bikes caused no more erosion than walkers over most terrain and less erosion in some soil types. The problem is one of perception; a muddy, eroded trail caused by hundreds of hikers will not raise an eyebrow but if you put a single mountain bike tyre track down the middle of the trail then those same hikers will immediately blame the biker.
DavidC, says...
4:43pm Fri 24 Nov 06
MB, says...
4:47pm Fri 24 Nov 06
Human use of the land changes all landscapes over time. If it wasn't for human intervention and the removal of vast tracts of woodland in this country, Ilkey Moor probably wouldn't have existed in the first place !
We have to accept that uses and users of the land change over time. As long as there is curtesy and respect co-existance should be possible.
What's needed is user education, history has shown over and over again that prohibition never works.
CEF, says...
4:59pm Fri 24 Nov 06
As a regular walker and mountainbiker for over 15 years, I must add my weight to the cogent arguments given by some posters above. The evidence that mountainbikers have caused this erosion is very spurious, and as reported and quoted above virtually non-existent, based as it is purely on hearsay and uneducated opinion. If one were to need an example of a bridleway that is entirely unwalkable during the winter months may I direct you to the route off Harden Moor, running down towars the St Ives lodge above Bingley. This erosion is not as a result of walkers or mountainbikes, although both use the trail, but rather it is due to horses. I see that no argument for banning them has been made by any of the 'experts' in the article above.
I would agree that the moving of stones or obstacles is not on. I would agree that the building of obstacles is not on. I would also point out that any experienced moutainbiker would never move stones out of the way of the trail, and I have never seen evidence of the building of obstacles.
For my part, as a year round moutainbiker, I am entirely aware of the sensitive nature of some types of soils and trails and have no wish to add my erosion to that of foot traffic and horses. I extend this self imposed ban to Ilkley Moor as well, as do many people I know. And we do this in the knowledge that we cause less erosion that both walkers and horse riders. Can they say the same?
Please present researched facts not spurious opinion based on little more than NIMBYism.
BD, says...
7:10pm Fri 24 Nov 06
5 RECREATION AND ACCESS
5.5 The Law of Property Act also states that, on urban commons, the driving of vehicles not permitted - this definition includes bicycles. The use of Ilkley Moor by mountain bikes is, therefore, strictly illegal without the landowners lawful authorisation although at present mountain biking is allowed where routes can sustain this use.
5.66 Mountain biking: as a registered urban common, Ilkley Moor falls under the Law of Property Act 1925 which states that vehicles are not permitted - bicycles are classed as vehicles. It is, therefore strictly forbidden to ride mountain bikes or any other bicycle on the moor other than across Keighley Road. The Act does, however, state that this is prohibited without lawful authority from the landowner. The use of Ilkley Moor by mountain bikes is being monitored and consideration will be given to allowing it where routes can sustain such use and where conflict with other users is minimised. Where there is evidence that bicycles are causing unreasonable damage, they will be prohibited.
So an act of 1925 deems mountain biking in 2006 on Ilkley Moor technically illegal. That makes perfect sense.
I understand the concern regarding damage but walkers and horses cause more erosive damage than mountain biking.
I enjoy mountain biking (and walking) on Ilkley Moor and appreciate what a superb place it is. I avoid the busy areas in peak times. I slow down and give way to walkers always greeting them with a friendly Hello.
Ilkley Moor should be shared by all. It is not selfish to think otherwise?
yoda, says...
9:03pm Fri 24 Nov 06
It appears they are also now connected with JD cycles of Ilkley.This would go some way to explaining why they have ceased their destructive activities.Under guidance from more experienced riders at the shop they seem to have been educated.
I must add that the group I met were mid teens at the time.
I am myself a keen cyclist,mountaineer,climber and walker.I impose a volountary ban on myself riding the moor in bad conditions as it does do some damage but also it's no fun slogging through mud anyway.
m o, says...
9:25pm Fri 24 Nov 06
scotty@Team Gravity, says...
2:29pm Sat 25 Nov 06
The real problem here is people like Mr Cooke; they cant cope with sharing the moor. It even says in the article that Mr Cooke was the chap who tried to get the moor taken over by the national trust. This is not because he cares about the other users of the moor but because he would like to have more control of it and who uses it.
People cannot cope with riders moving a few stones around and using some fallen trees to build more exciting and challenging obstacles yet they are quite happy to live in their stone houses built from the moor.
I notice people are now complaining about rock climbing. Can they not get through the day without trying to stop someone practicing an extreme sport?
If anyone is making the moors a less pleasant place it is the large number of dog walkers who do not pick up after their mutts. One had the cheek to complain about the speed we were riding at (even though we stopped to let him pass), whilst his dog was doing its business right next him.
If it did happen that mountain bikers were stopped from using the moor then just think how much moor street riding would take place. I ride on Ilkley moor at least twice per week (usually more) and when we see a walker we wait while they pass and are friendly. So if we can show them consideration then they should have the decency to share the moors. We are all equally entitled to use it.
If we are not riding on the moor on an afternoon what does Mr Cooke suggest we do? Play video Games, stand outside the Co-op, drop some litter, vandalise the band stand maybe?
Teamgravity.co.uk
SC, says...
4:15pm Sat 25 Nov 06
We avoid the moors in very weather and use it more in the thick of winter when everything is well frozen.
The intention should be to educate those who act less responsibly and leave the moors open for anyone that treats it with some comon sense.
Incidentally, I am part of a group that is in the thick of building Stainburn mountain bike trail near Otley and we have walkers now using the trail for their own persuits. Rather than have them removed, we have allowed them to continue and signed the trails to warn about pedestrians.
Remember that the thick of any erosion on Ilkley moor has been caused by walkers and responsible use of mountain bikes does not create significant damage.
I'm sure biking volunteers would help to maintain the moors and repair dmage caused by both walkers and biker if the matter was taken up with the council.
Conrad, says...
5:24pm Sat 25 Nov 06
Paul J, says...
12:30am Sun 26 Nov 06
I always give way to walkers and horses, and am polite and courteous whilst riding on the moor. I am aware of the sensitive nature of the moor and that Bradford Council are aware we are
Flouting the rules but tolerate the responsible use of MTBs on the moor, this is why I also impose a Voluntary ban on my own riding on the moor when the ground becomes too wet during the winter, only using it on the odd winter ride when the ground is frozen solid. I feel all users of the moor including walkers could learn a lot from the responsible way most mountain bikers I know use the moor and should also be prepared to partake in their own voluntary bans when the ground conditions dictate it, it is obvious when the peaty areas wet they unsuitable for any sort of passage including walking.
I accept there has been some unauthorised building by a group of ill informed teenagers on the moor which is not acceptable and should not be tolerated. As I understand it they have now being reigned in by the local MTBing community and educated about the situation, it is good to see them out getting some exercise. The majority of real mountain bikers are intelligent and responsible people and would not consider such activities without prior permission from the landowner please do not tar us all with the same brush.
I think the best way forwards is through consultation and some compromise, a set of rules agreed between all users of the moor and Bradford council is the best way forwards. They would probably be similar to the rules many Mountain bikers already impose on themselves promoting responsible use.
There are other more constructive ways to solve the erosion problem such as creating quality sustainable trails that can withstand the passage of all users. I am not talking about big unsightly limestone fire roads either, there are many new unobtrusive ways to use natural local materials to improve the sustainability without effecting the overall appearance, these are being used extensively right now by YDNP in moor land areas to improve bridleways. Any effort might be better directed towards securing funding for this type of work solving any erosion problems for everybody?
I would suggest any consultation should be with IMBA UK (International Mountain Bike Association) the local representative is Kieran Forster http://www.imba.org.uk/
Also might be worth talking to local trail building group Singletraction who have worked with Forestry Commission and YDNP on project in similar landscapes, they can also be used as a good interface with the local MTBing community.
http://www.singletraction.org.uk/
I hope my comments have been constructive and of some help and between us we can find a more sensible solution than simply to ban all mountain bikes
Paul J, says...
1:41am Sun 26 Nov 06
http://www.imba.org.uk/index.php?page=natural_resource_impacts
http://www.imba.org.uk/uploads/papers/white_et_al_study.pdf
Paul J, says...
1:59am Sun 26 Nov 06
http://www.imba.org.uk/uploads/papers/perception_and_reality_of_conflict.pdf
john G, says...
8:12am Sun 26 Nov 06
If you are a biker and use the moor I advise you to cease that activity. If you wish to use it for your sport then I suggest, as I have done before, to lobby Bradford Council in order to change the Management plan and the by-laws (or use the legal route). Don't use the argument that you've done it for years, or that other people do things they shouldn't in order to defend your own illegal activities.
I also suggest to everyone using the moor for legal activities to educate any bikers they see on the moor. Lets all work together to embarrass these bikers who are illegally destroying the moor. If enough people stop them and inform them of the illegality of their actions maybe they would think twice about their actions and get exercise by using the legal route available to them.
I for one will be lobbying the council to start policing the moor more effectively - a few fines and better education is needed.
Will Waters, says...
10:05am Sun 26 Nov 06
Conrad, says...
10:15am Sun 26 Nov 06
Responsible cyclists on the moor cause no more damage than walkers. If you disagree with this then you are as blinkered as those you acuse. If I believed cycling caused excessive damage to a path or route then I would stop using it immediately. I believe that 99% of bikers would do the same.
JB, says...
11:40am Sun 26 Nov 06
It is a shame that in the UK there seems to be such an anti everybody elses activities mentality and that the law is so out of date regarding use of country side trails. So many other countries integrate different country side usage without problems its is a shame the UK can not.
I am now going out for a walk, then a bike ride in an European country where common trail usage does not cause any problems, proving it is possible.
I just hope that when return to beautiful Yorkshire I will still be able to enjoy the country side in peace without having to worry about being fined and harrassed.
JB
Chris E, says...
6:39pm Sun 26 Nov 06
Let the first three user-types thrive.
Dave A, says...
9:22pm Sun 26 Nov 06
What you're seeing john G is the spirit of Benny Rothman alive and kicking.
MB, says...
8:57am Mon 27 Nov 06
Dear John G
If you read the Bradford City Council management plan for Ilkley moor, which is quoted in italics above, you will see that Bradford City council are aware of bikes using the moor, and as the landowners are tolerating it's use. Do despite the 1925 act the riders using the moor are not doing so illegally.
sb, says...
12:18pm Mon 27 Nov 06
Ilkley moor is here for all to Enjoy. Bradford council state this activity is (5.5) "
strictly illegal without the landowners lawful authority although at present mountain biking is allowed where routes can sustain this us" (5.6)
clearly states informal recreation would be walking/strolling as individuals or in small groups, picnicing, dog walking, horse riding, mountain biking, kite flying, bird watching, rock climbing, orienteering" etc.
My interpritation of this is an acceptance that all can enjoy the moor in a reasonable manner.
The number of mountain bike wheels is minimal compared to the number of feet that touch the moor and the erosion as such is minimal. Irresponsible dog owners, walkers dropping litter and causing fire are a far greater problem.
I believe biggoted views as Mr Cooke's are pure NIMBYism's.
Perhaps, just maybe if he could think sensibly - all moor users and therefore destroyers could work together to improve the conditon of the moor for all and future use.
Bradford council has the expertise to manage repair and control but not the cash or manpower.
Why not allow those qualified to arrange working parties to help repair the moor? I know mountain biker, walkers and runners would only be too happy to spend odd days dong this.
I have been involved in similar schemes in the Peak District and it works beautifully.
I wonder if Mr Cooke would show up?
John G, says...
1:10pm Mon 27 Nov 06
Ilkley district and parish councillor Anne Hawkesworth, Bradford's Executive Member for Environment and Culture, said: "There is only one legal route for cyclists across the moor, which is the Keighley Road which runs to Whetstone Gate. It is illegal to use cycles elsewhere because the moor is classified as urban common, and we urge cyclists to comply with that law.
Ilkley Tourism Partnership, says...
2:01pm Mon 27 Nov 06
MB, says...
3:51pm Mon 27 Nov 06
John G wrote:Unfortunately this just suggests that the councillor in question has not read the relvant documents written by Bradford City Council.
Dear MB
Ilkley district and parish councillor Anne Hawkesworth, Bradford's Executive Member for Environment and Culture, said: "There is only one legal route for cyclists across the moor, which is the Keighley Road which runs to Whetstone Gate. It is illegal to use cycles elsewhere because the moor is classified as urban common, and we urge cyclists to comply with that law.
john G, says...
5:05pm Mon 27 Nov 06
I feel it is a shame that an individual like Mr Cooke cannot express an honest and heartfelt belief without a vitriolic and hateful volley of personal attacks.By all means try to defend your illegal activities, but do so without attack individuals in such a personal manner.
Dave A, says...
6:46pm Mon 27 Nov 06
It pressure of people visiting the moor that causes erosion, not a few cheeky mountain bikers, I'm sure a few bikes extra won't make any difference at all given the quarter of a million walkers up there.
we urge cyclists to comply with that law.
No thanks.
Quote From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/05/15/nmoor15.xml
MB, says...
10:01am Tue 28 Nov 06
That's the way of the world, if you try and tarnish all with your bold sweeping personal opinion you have to expect those who feel slighted to reply.
It is noticeable how few 'walkers' there are on this thread. Perhaps this is because as your friend Anne Hawkesworth said We have not received many complaints. Perhaps the majority of the quarter of a million visitors don't find a few mountain bikers on the moor a problem ?
CEF, says...
10:03am Tue 28 Nov 06
Ignoring the moot point about whether one user group claims the right to be there over another user group misses the point of virtually every post above. The reason for these posts is to try and allow people to understand that moutnainbikes do not necessarily cause more erosion than other users, that we are a responsible user group and that we will not just allow mis-information to be bandied around by people with their own agenda
quote.
i look forward to having a conversation with any walker who challenges me, and I can promise them a polite and well informed argument in return. Can't say I'll be getting embarassed any time soon though.
john G, says...
11:32am Tue 28 Nov 06
I have never seen evidence of the building of obstacles.
Go to Backstone Beck and the area around it - then have a reasonable, informed discussion regarding the issues involved.
I, for one, do not view this as a question of walkers v. bikers, although I can see that makes the issue more black and white, therefore easier to argue.
I would rather people didn't get into personal remarks as I do not feel it is constructive.
Please do not make assumptions regarding peoples 'agendas'. I am or have been at various times a walker, a cyclist, a climber, a horserider, a dog walker, ie. a recreational user of this planet.
I presume that john G as a walker and an individual who strives to stay within the boundaries of the law in every aspect of his life, and ensures appropriate consultation with Local and National Government prior to taking up any activity
You may disagree with my views, or the views of others, but I would ask you not to presume things about an individual you have no knowledge of, and not to attempt to belittle that person through personal remarks. It has been said there are not many walkers posting here - again reducing the debate to walkers v. bikers. Perhaps it is the case they do not view it as a problem, or perhaps they feel uncomfortable with the aggressive reaction of a section of the bike riding fraternity who are choosing to air their views here.
MB, says...
12:31pm Tue 28 Nov 06
Please do not make assumptions regarding peoples 'agendas'. I am or have been at various times a walker, a cyclist, a climber, a horserider, a dog walker, ie. a recreational user of this planet.
It has been said there are not many walkers posting here - again reducing the debate to walkers v. bikers.
Perhaps my use of the quotes was not obvious enough when i wrote 'walkers'. Most of the posters above are by their (and your) definition also
recreational user of this planet.
The reason we speak as bikers is due the fact that the sensationalist article written by the Ilkley gazette calls for bikers to be banned. If it were walkers/climbers/families/horseriders being told to stay away then we would write from that perspective of our lives.
The fact that we all ride/walk/enjoy the moor for recreation would hopefully allow us all to see each others view points ??
I'm sure the Ilkley Gazette in a display of responsible journalism would be happy to present the case for allowing bikes to continue using the moor.
Dave A, says...
12:54pm Tue 28 Nov 06
with the aggressive reaction of a section of the bike riding fraternity
John can you quote the comments from which you've got that idea from?
I've just re read all the comments and can't see any evidence of either.
I'm afraid that sort of hysteria won't help you debate points here, rather it makes your point of view easy to dismiss as irrational.
PaulJ, says...
4:40pm Tue 28 Nov 06
Secondly, There appears to be much confusion as to whether Mountain Bikes can ride on Ilkley moor. It would appear they may have permissive rights, I intend to contact Bradford Council and the land manager and get a definitive answer.
CEF, says...
4:53pm Tue 28 Nov 06
may I suggest that in future you don't be so surprised that people have views opposing yours and will defend their point of view robustly when accused of things that do not reflect the true facts or the overwhelming majority of that user group.
kirsty, says...
4:57pm Tue 28 Nov 06
I would ask you not to presume things about an individual you have no knowledge of
yet you seem to be happy to do that for a whole group of people? seems odd.
john G, says...
7:18pm Tue 28 Nov 06
I consider any debate with you as over
DavidC, says...
11:03pm Tue 28 Nov 06
Paul J, says...
12:06am Wed 29 Nov 06
MB, says...
2:16pm Wed 29 Nov 06
john G wrote:The nature of debate is about defending your views or opinions. Not expecting all and sundry to take your view point as the status quo.
I have tried as much as possible to discuss the issue in a reasonable manner. These additional comments are further evidence of an unwillingness to participate in a dialogue. No wonder others are not encouraged to post here if their views are to be criticised in this manner. I hope everyone continues to enjoy the moor without resorting to illegal or damaging activities. I will continue in my efforts to discourage people from destroying the wonderful resource we have on our doorstep. A quote from CEF seems particularly aptI consider any debate with you as over
Please do not be suprised if other people have different opinions to you. And it's not critisism or a personal attack if someone dares to question your point of view !
David Bacon, says...
4:23pm Wed 29 Nov 06
I am one of the rare breed that enjoys both mountain biking and hiking. I seem to spend endless hours defending mtb only for the mindless few to give the majority of cyclists a bad name (and after nearly been run over by bikers cycling on footpaths, I understand the walkers point of view).
Some bikers think they can ride down any path that takes their fancy; I am not one of these, yet sadly will inevitably be tarred with the same brush.
If bikers can't behave, then sadly a ban is the only option to protect people and the environment. This is very sad.
IMOR, says...
4:55pm Wed 29 Nov 06
RH, says...
5:42pm Wed 29 Nov 06
However, I would disagree with the point of view that the use of cycles on the moor is illegal , and that permissive rights do in fact currently exist. Under the Law of Property Act 1925 Ilkey Moor is registered as an Urban Common, which strictly speaking excludes the use of bicycles on the moor. However, the Act also provides the opportunity for the landowner to grant lawful authority, and in the case of Ilkley Moor, Bradford Council currently allow the use of cycles, as stated in the Ilkley Moor Management Plan.
The Ilkley Moor Management Plan sets out a number of objectives, one of which is to ensure that the moor continues to provide a venue for outdoor activities other than walking. The Plan also sets out the need to monitor the use of the moor for informal outdoor activities and assess the impact of these on the moor before deciding how best to manage them. Whether or not the use of mountain bikes accelerates erosion is still open to debate, but a number of studies have shown that mountain bikes cause no more damage than walkers. The state of the paths around the Cow and Calf evidence the erosion which can be caused by excessive numbers of walkers.
Sadly, as is often the case, there is always a small minority who behave in such a way as to tarnish the reputation of the majority, and if indeed some mountain bikers are moving rocks, clearly this is unacceptable and must stop (I believe steps are already in place to actions this - educate the younger riders). However, I am confident, that the vast majority of mountain bikers using the moor both respect the moorland habitat and other users, such as walkers.
To ensure that the moor continues to be available to all for a variety of activities, a reasoned debate with representation from all concerned is what is needed. It is unfair to simply prohibit the use of mountain bikes simple because of the perceived damage and the irresponsible behaviour of a small minority. Incidents of graffiti and the recent devastating moorland fire were more than likely perpetrated by people on foot. However, quite rightly, there has been no call to ban people from walking on the moor!
Ilkley Moor covers a large area, and am I sure that with sensible management it can be enjoyed by all for a variety of activities and in such a way as to sustain it for the enjoyment of future generations.
My final comment would be to say that I felt the article in the Gazette was rather one sided and perhaps more effort should have been made to seek opinions from mountainbikers to give a more balanced report.
Will Waters, says...
8:38pm Wed 29 Nov 06
A nice natural trail here...
http://www.ilkley-more.com/album_showpage.php?pic_id=160
Errr...a few tyre tracks? Earth based trails ARE erosion. How else do people think they get there?
IMOR, looking at your comments on some of the pictures, you seem to have a somewhat narrow-minded agenda. Do you live in Royston Vasey?
CEF, says...
11:32am Thu 30 Nov 06
have tried as much as possible to discuss the issue in a reasonable manner
no you haven't. you have made a single point over and over again, and have failed to allow the debate to move on. you have then accused people debating back and defending an alternative view point of being agressive, hateful, intimidatory and personal. this is the behaviour of a child.
Big Fat Tyres, says...
2:51pm Thu 30 Nov 06
What a great idea.
God bless the Kinder Trespass, without which none of us would have access.
cking, says...
10:40pm Thu 30 Nov 06
red socked biker, says...
9:41am Fri 1 Dec 06
the scottish system works very well indeed..
Fergus Walsh, says...
12:30pm Tue 2 Jan 07
If everyone uses the Moor in a considerate and courteous manner, there is room for all outdoor enthusiats. It has been provem time and time again that Mountain bikers do no more damage than horses or walkers. We cannot legislate for inconsiderate users of the moor. In my experience there are far more inconsiderate and rude walkers than mountain bikers or horse riders. Keep the moor open to all I say.
Regards
Anton, says...
10:38pm Wed 3 Jan 07
mtb rider, leeds says...
9:23pm Tue 9 Sep 08
Geo Bailiss, Ilkley says...
4:43pm Wed 10 Sep 08
mtb rider wrote:A typically childish response!
ok so stones should not be moved but its a moor if mtb's are banned so should walkers
Mountain bikes are ILLEGALon the moors!! Walkers are not!!
If you wish to challenge and reform that bylaw 'mtb', then get off your bike and campaign Bradford Council to change the law!! Otherwise, keep your silly comments to yourself!!
lkley Moor, which is said to becoming damaged because of the activities of mountain bike riders.
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AR, says...
5:40pm Thu 23 Nov 06
I think Mr Cooke is being a little generalistic here. Mountain bikers do not move stones or damage land in order to make paths clearer. Obstacles are what make mountain biking fun and are an inherent part of the sport.
Riders generally have consideration for walkers and move aside or stay away from paths rather than interupt their progress.
Contrary to what Mr Cooke says, mountain bikes cause little damage to the ground the cover, particularly on grass. It is, in fact very difficult to negotiate some paths because of the mess created by walking boots, hence bikers tend to travel near to, but off footpaths.
There are many paths accross the moor. Some well used and some not so. Each of those paths has been created by walkers, horse riders or bikers. By creating a path damage is caused to the vegitation on the moor with stones and earth also being moved. This is however part of the evolution of a piece of land.
Mr Cookes' selfish approach to the moor is quite narrow minded and seems to only consider what he and his friends see as good use of what is an under-used and badly managed piece of land.
Incidentally, a one ton horse or a stream of 20 hikers will cause as much, if not more damage to the moor.
If he wants to be constructive, he should consider how Ilkley Moor might create a revenue stream from alternative visitors in order to fund some of the remedial work required to keep the land in good order.
See Stainburn Forest near Harrogate, Coed Y Brenin in Wales and many more...